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Was Enid Blyton Racist?
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Many of her books depict an idyllic vision of rural England, those days before mass immigration, when our very culture was changed forever.
Providing certain things do not cause any physical harm or disadvantage to certain groups, either because of the colour of their skin, religion or sexuality, should certain children's stories be banned or altered to fit in with today's political correctness thinking?
It was said that the very bad Golliwogs were replaced with White Goblins, then is this not also racist against whites?
The golliwog owner of the Toytown garage was replaced by a ‘Mr Sparks’.
/// Golliwog appears as a total villain only in the notorious Here Comes Noddy Again, where a golly asks the hero with a bell on his hat to give him a lift into the dark dark wood - and then steals his car. ///
But then that could have been anybody.
Many of her books depict an idyllic vision of rural England, those days before mass immigration, when our very culture was changed forever.
Providing certain things do not cause any physical harm or disadvantage to certain groups, either because of the colour of their skin, religion or sexuality, should certain children's stories be banned or altered to fit in with today's political correctness thinking?
It was said that the very bad Golliwogs were replaced with White Goblins, then is this not also racist against whites?
The golliwog owner of the Toytown garage was replaced by a ‘Mr Sparks’.
/// Golliwog appears as a total villain only in the notorious Here Comes Noddy Again, where a golly asks the hero with a bell on his hat to give him a lift into the dark dark wood - and then steals his car. ///
But then that could have been anybody.
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aog, not only am I old enough to remember the days before mass immigration, I am old enough to remember when women were regarded as good in their place but not equal to their husbands, or men in general, otherwise. Do you remember those days? Do you think that laws and practices that changed them were wrong or unnecessary? If not, why then should you object to the same process with regard to other groups?
@Zeuhl - I am not acquainted with Enid Blyton beyond having read some of her books when was younger - disappointed to find out that my memory of the phrase "lashings of ginger beer" never actually appeared, at least according to QI it never did - I think they lie :)
@Baz. I am of the left. Please point out to me where I said we should censor history? Quite the contrary, in fact. You are fond of your cliches, aren't you?
@Baz. I am of the left. Please point out to me where I said we should censor history? Quite the contrary, in fact. You are fond of your cliches, aren't you?
"People really should engage a brain before flinging out their tired old clichés and ill thought through slogans"
oh dear...you should take a hefty swig of your own medicines
If they rewrite the book then it is changing history...to suit todays PC infected mob, bless the poor little darlings, dont want them getting all, indignant, distraught and worked up over a kids books do we
oh dear...you should take a hefty swig of your own medicines
If they rewrite the book then it is changing history...to suit todays PC infected mob, bless the poor little darlings, dont want them getting all, indignant, distraught and worked up over a kids books do we
In answer to your question:
Providing certain things do not cause any physical harm or disadvantage to certain groups, either because of the colour of their skin, religion or sexuality, should certain children's stories be banned or altered to fit in with today's political correctness thinking?
Could you define 'disadvantage'?
If Jews were portrayed as hook-nosed, money-grubbing shysters in a series of children's books, I think it would ring alarm bells.
As for Enid Blyton - who cares? I mean seriously...who cares about her books apart from people who aren't children?
My generation have fond memories of Charlotte's Web.
My nephew, who is 11 will have fond memories of Harry Potter.
Enid Blyton wrote stories that belong to an age that is almost forgotten. She is way too contemporary (in the true sense of the word) - which is why her stories have aged.
She is no Lewis Carroll or JM Barrie, C.S. Lewis or J.R.R. Tolkien is she? It's not like anyone is falling over themselves to remake her books into films.
Let the elderly enjoy her lovely racist stories. No harm in that.
Providing certain things do not cause any physical harm or disadvantage to certain groups, either because of the colour of their skin, religion or sexuality, should certain children's stories be banned or altered to fit in with today's political correctness thinking?
Could you define 'disadvantage'?
If Jews were portrayed as hook-nosed, money-grubbing shysters in a series of children's books, I think it would ring alarm bells.
As for Enid Blyton - who cares? I mean seriously...who cares about her books apart from people who aren't children?
My generation have fond memories of Charlotte's Web.
My nephew, who is 11 will have fond memories of Harry Potter.
Enid Blyton wrote stories that belong to an age that is almost forgotten. She is way too contemporary (in the true sense of the word) - which is why her stories have aged.
She is no Lewis Carroll or JM Barrie, C.S. Lewis or J.R.R. Tolkien is she? It's not like anyone is falling over themselves to remake her books into films.
Let the elderly enjoy her lovely racist stories. No harm in that.
AOG
Can I fire the question back to you?
You asked whether Enid Blyton was a racist.
What do you think?
Does the evidence (her books) suggest she was, or do you think she was just racist based on what we think is 'racist' now?
Further to that point - what would Ms Blyton have had to write for you to think, "Actually...now that IS racist"?
Would she have to have written a book called 'Noddy Goes To Kentucky To Lynch Dem Uppity N*****s'?
Can I fire the question back to you?
You asked whether Enid Blyton was a racist.
What do you think?
Does the evidence (her books) suggest she was, or do you think she was just racist based on what we think is 'racist' now?
Further to that point - what would Ms Blyton have had to write for you to think, "Actually...now that IS racist"?
Would she have to have written a book called 'Noddy Goes To Kentucky To Lynch Dem Uppity N*****s'?
No, she wasn't racist, she reflected society as it was then, and I've just found one of my childhood books and will have aread again. A totally different culture.
Any child reading a rehashed version will get no idea of the magic that Blyton brought to most of us - and if the stories were about children in a different class or circumstance to her readers, it didn't offend or make us feel disadvantaged, it taught us about variety and diversity.
I feel very sorry for the do-gooders who want to change things to fit modern society (whatever that is). Enid wasn't offensive, and still isn't. Nobody rewriting Chaucer because some it was bawdy....
Any child reading a rehashed version will get no idea of the magic that Blyton brought to most of us - and if the stories were about children in a different class or circumstance to her readers, it didn't offend or make us feel disadvantaged, it taught us about variety and diversity.
I feel very sorry for the do-gooders who want to change things to fit modern society (whatever that is). Enid wasn't offensive, and still isn't. Nobody rewriting Chaucer because some it was bawdy....
FredPuli43
/// I am old enough to remember when women were regarded as good in their place but not equal to their husbands, or men in general, otherwise. ///
Different matter altogether, but even in those far off distant days, it was only a certain class of man that thought themselves superior to women.
That is yet another myth brought on by the days of 'Women's Lib' all the women I knew were treated with more respect and courtesy than any man that I knew.
/// I am old enough to remember when women were regarded as good in their place but not equal to their husbands, or men in general, otherwise. ///
Different matter altogether, but even in those far off distant days, it was only a certain class of man that thought themselves superior to women.
That is yet another myth brought on by the days of 'Women's Lib' all the women I knew were treated with more respect and courtesy than any man that I knew.
@AoG - Very good, you correctly told us that the Nazi party was actually formally known as the National Socialist German Workers Party.
But its actions, it agenda was NATIONALIST and FASCIST (to use your form of emphasis). It had its roots in German Nationalism and the freikorps, a paramilitary anti-communist organisation. And many of the nationalist movements around europe are inspired by that Nationalist and fascist agenda. Nothing socialist about Golden Dawn in Greece, for instance....
You were there, AoG -you should know this sort of stuff.
And the way women were treated is not at all different. It is all part of the same thing, and it concerns me that you cannot see that.
But its actions, it agenda was NATIONALIST and FASCIST (to use your form of emphasis). It had its roots in German Nationalism and the freikorps, a paramilitary anti-communist organisation. And many of the nationalist movements around europe are inspired by that Nationalist and fascist agenda. Nothing socialist about Golden Dawn in Greece, for instance....
You were there, AoG -you should know this sort of stuff.
And the way women were treated is not at all different. It is all part of the same thing, and it concerns me that you cannot see that.
sp1814
/// Would she have to have written a book called 'Noddy Goes To Kentucky To Lynch Dem Uppity N*****s'? ///
No more than a book called Golly goes to Africa to cook an invasive English uppity in a cooking pot.
You often quote about blacks being lynched, but there have also been equally savage acts on whites carried out by blacks.
No in answer to the word Racist, it would be racist if an actual black person was lynched by a white person, simply because of the black person's skin colour.
Other matters are just words and can do no personal harm, to an individual no matter what colour skin.
/// Would she have to have written a book called 'Noddy Goes To Kentucky To Lynch Dem Uppity N*****s'? ///
No more than a book called Golly goes to Africa to cook an invasive English uppity in a cooking pot.
You often quote about blacks being lynched, but there have also been equally savage acts on whites carried out by blacks.
No in answer to the word Racist, it would be racist if an actual black person was lynched by a white person, simply because of the black person's skin colour.
Other matters are just words and can do no personal harm, to an individual no matter what colour skin.
I feel that the notion of changing history to align with modern attitudes does an extreme disservice to culture and society.
Surely it is possible for history to be viewed in context - not simply changed in order to fit in with a modern viewpoint.
Like many of my generation, I was ernthralled with Enid Blyton, and as a child in the fifites, I would no more associate the villainous gollywogs with black people than I would fly, because concepts like racism did not exist then.
If my children had read the unchanged books, i would have explained to them that these books are very old, and people are different now, and explain that gollies are not baddies at all - and so on.
Ms. Blyton was of her time - and the fact that she may have been perceived as a cold and distant mother does not in any way detract from her skill in engaging an entire generation in reading books - nor should it, the two are entirely separate.
History is, by definition, the capture of a period in time, and in many ways, society will have changed from those days in myriad different ways.
We should embrace our history as what it is - a snapshot of a previous time - and use it and embrace it in context, not try and make it 'mdern' which entirely defeats the object of history in the first place.
Why you need to bring in imigration is - as often - a mystery, AOG
- great subject for debate though.
Surely it is possible for history to be viewed in context - not simply changed in order to fit in with a modern viewpoint.
Like many of my generation, I was ernthralled with Enid Blyton, and as a child in the fifites, I would no more associate the villainous gollywogs with black people than I would fly, because concepts like racism did not exist then.
If my children had read the unchanged books, i would have explained to them that these books are very old, and people are different now, and explain that gollies are not baddies at all - and so on.
Ms. Blyton was of her time - and the fact that she may have been perceived as a cold and distant mother does not in any way detract from her skill in engaging an entire generation in reading books - nor should it, the two are entirely separate.
History is, by definition, the capture of a period in time, and in many ways, society will have changed from those days in myriad different ways.
We should embrace our history as what it is - a snapshot of a previous time - and use it and embrace it in context, not try and make it 'mdern' which entirely defeats the object of history in the first place.
Why you need to bring in imigration is - as often - a mystery, AOG
- great subject for debate though.
And let us not forget the books for older children that Enid Blyton wrote - the Mallory Towers books where a vilainous character was Josephine, a fat girl (!) whose father "... couldn't bare driving under ninety miles an hour ..." (obviously written by a woman who didn't drive!) and was roundly told off by the heroine's father who was - naturally - a doctor.
AOG
Other matters are just words and can do no personal harm, to an individual no matter what colour skin.
Nope.
I've been on AB for a number of years, and refuse to believe that you we that naive.
No, no, no, no.
If you Sally believed that, then you would never post anything about Muslims protesting in Wotton Bassett.
You would never post about Muslims shouting out homophobic abuse in East London.
You wouldn't post about much...
Because if you honestly believe that words have no power at all, then...well, as I said - it would be the most naive statement anyone ha said since the captain of the Titanic uttered, "Don't worry lads...I'm sure we'll miss it".
Other matters are just words and can do no personal harm, to an individual no matter what colour skin.
Nope.
I've been on AB for a number of years, and refuse to believe that you we that naive.
No, no, no, no.
If you Sally believed that, then you would never post anything about Muslims protesting in Wotton Bassett.
You would never post about Muslims shouting out homophobic abuse in East London.
You wouldn't post about much...
Because if you honestly believe that words have no power at all, then...well, as I said - it would be the most naive statement anyone ha said since the captain of the Titanic uttered, "Don't worry lads...I'm sure we'll miss it".
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