Even A Worm Can Turn (Warning, Distressing)

[Chairman2001]

Although a dedicated anti-Capital punishment believer, I sometimes think perhaps it is appropriate.

This guy should be burn at the stake, but I suppose that reduces me to his level.

But just imagine what his victims must have suffered, especially the innocent children.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-65988132

[retrocop]

//The location of my home has nothing whatever to do with the discussion.//
You infer we live in a civilised society. How civil is it where you live? Do you not have murder where you live, assaults, burglary?
How can you describe our society as civil when we see fatal stabbings and shootings everywhere in the UK. That is the law of the jungle and is not civil.

[andy-hughes]

Retrocop - Society has its failings, but adding to them with draconian uncivilised behaviour is never going to make it better.

A Society with rules that the vast majority live by will always win over one where survival of the most savage is the rule.

[ladybirder]

Do you have to be so rude AH. I'm sure Naomi was not the only person who thought you were referring to her. I did for one.

[retrocop]

A Society with rules that the vast majority live by will always win over one where survival of the most savage is the rule.

// vast majority live by//

Well that mantra doesn't give much help to those who do live by the rules but end up in a coffin

[retrocop]

ladybirder

//Do you have to be so rude AH. I'm sure Naomi was not the only person who thought you were referring to her. I did for one.//

I don't see who else he could be addressing. Naomi was the only poster who mentioned dogs and putting them down and spoke of criminals at the same time.
For a counter to Naomi's post an allegation of a Fascist ideology is suggested.




A poor attempt to back pedal.

[andy-hughes]

Retrocop at 16.07 - it doesn't, but Society is far from perfect, as you will know.

We have a system that far from perfectly judges and punishes wrongdoers without the need for laws based on who can demonstrate the highest moral indignation.

[naomi24]

I’m not morally indignant. Just practical.

[andy-hughes]

Retrocop and ladybirder - I am never ruder to naomi than she is to me, and neither of us has died from it so far.

I was not 'back pedaling' as you put it.

I construct my posts very carefully to convey exactly what I want to say with as minimal a space for misinterpretation as I can manage.

If naomi is not happy with my analysis of her abhorrent view, she can come and debate it with me.

Neither she or I need faulty analysis from the sidelines.

[naomi24]

Oh, so you were referring to me in that appalling manner then, AH. That’s a relief. My ego remains intact - something I never doubted.

[andy-hughes]

If the cap fits ...

[retrocop]

Recently you posted that if a man was rude to one of your daughters you would have ‘strong words’ with him.
Would you have such liberal views if, god forbid, that same person extinguished their lives in a heinous brutal and savage manner. Please explain how you would feel and would want it to be dealt with .

[naomi24]

Thank you LB and Retro.

[vulcan42]

" if the cap fits...
You have already said you were referring to naomi, after initially denying it.

[retrocop]

Tell you what andy hughes. I’ll go first and tell you what I would do. In the absence of a judicial judgement that the killer be hanged I would hang the perpetrator myself with piano wire and do time in
prison with the satisfaction he would never be released to kill again.Those are the values with which my loyalty and love for my family lies.

[andy-hughes]

retrocop - //Recently you posted that if a man was rude to one of your daughters you would have ‘strong words’ with him.
Would you have such liberal views if, god forbid, that same person extinguished their lives in a heinous brutal and savage manner. Please explain how you would feel and would want it to be dealt with //

A hypothetical is never a good way to debate, but since you have offered it -

if anyone were to do harm to my family, my liberal views would undoubtedly be abandoned instantly, and a natural sense of a desire for revenge would replace them.

But happily, I am not in that situation, and hopefully never will be.

We all live with our circumstances as they are, and discussing how we would change if those circumstances altered is largely redundant.

I might as well say, tune in next week, when I ponder how I would feel if I woke up blind.

Such possibilities exist for all of us, but 'what ifs' don't, or shouldn't, influence our individual moral code - they don't for me anyway.

[andy-hughes]

retrocop - // Tell you what andy hughes. I’ll go first and tell you what I would do. In the absence of a judicial judgement that the killer be hanged I would hang the perpetrator myself with piano wire and do time in
prison with the satisfaction he would never be released to kill again.Those are the values with which my loyalty and love for my family lies. //

We have cross-posted, and you will see that I am not really minded to join you in the Self-Righteous Brothers family.

I could never kill anyone, that would simply make me as bad as them, and sitting in prison for life telling myself that my killing was justified and his was not, would not make living with my sentence any easier.

We are polar opposites on this issue, but we have managed to exchange out views without serious rancour, and that is always a desirable result.

[retrocop]

I actually described how I would feel if the hypothetical question was directed at me and how I would deal with it.
Apart from stating it was hypothetic you dodged the question as how you would personally wish it to be dealt with.For instance. If there were judicial capitol punishment on the statue books would you plead for mercy which hadn’t been afforded the victim?

[andy-hughes]

retrocop - // Apart from stating it was hypothetic you dodged the question as how you would personally wish it to be dealt with.For instance. If there were judicial capitol punishment on the statue books would you plead for mercy which hadn’t been afforded the victim? //

I didn't 'dodge' the question, I simply didn't glean from your post exactly the response you were looking for.

To respond - if capital punishment was on the statute book, I would not plead for the sentence to be commuted, because I believe the law should be followed without interference, especially from an emotional perspective, which can only ever hinder due process.

But in the wee small hours, I would rejoice that someone who took my family from me is dead and unable to live in the same world as me any longer.

I am not happy that that would be my response, but I embrace my humanity completely, and I am not beyond rejoicing in the suffering and death of someone who ruined my life forever, because that is part of humanity as well.

[andy-hughes]

naomi - // Oh, so you were referring to me in that appalling manner then, AH. //

No, I was not. I referred to an abstract person who holds a view with which I robustly disagree.

If you want to attach yourself to that view, then feel free, but don't try and blame me for doing so.

[naomi24]

AH, Not even a good try. :o)