Listener 4250 2016111214 91885 By Bero

[trux]

Oh, what a struggle that was! Took me far too long to twig how to get started, and then progress was at snail's pace. Can't say that I'm a great fan (bring back last week's them any time!!) but it does all fit together unambiguously in the end and the PDM held itself off until very close to a full grid which is sort of satisfying (maybe more so for setter than solver), so thanks to ReBo for a thorough work-out, the full 15 rounds....

[francspenser]

Texasetes, what is the other place?

[Simplex]

Finished it slowly, also because of the heat. Not all that difficult, and it all falls very nicely into place once you fully understand the title. Like Scorpius, I got many of the answers before deciphering the definitions, which I thought was strangely entertaining in itself.

[fyellin]

Scorpius. You'd gotten beyond the point that my hint was intended to help. One of the great things about this puzzle is that you don't actually need to know the theme in order to solve it, just a close approximation. But then the rough approximation eventually gives you enough information to get the actual theme. My hint was to get you to the rough approximation. I think it was brilliant of BeRo to be able to create such a puzzle.

The last time I remember such cleverness was with in the Klein Bottle puzzle from last year (?). At first, we realized that we had to write in the words backwards. But that gave enough information to bring out "KLEIN BOTTLE" and to realize that the letters had to be written in mirror reversed.

In any case. I had never heard of the theme and would never have gotten it on my own. A small group of us do this puzzle together using an online Google doc. One of the others, clearly more appropriately educated, recognized the theme and its appropriateness. And as you can tell from my first comment, it took us even longer to realize its *full* appropriateness.

[u10]

francspenser - I think texasetes is referring to the Crossword Forum. We mustn't forget that the Crossword Centre do not even mention (!) the current Listener until the solution is published three weeks later so where does that leave us........

[perseverer]

Have to disagree with Simplex's 'not all that difficult'. I would assess this as one of the most difficult this year, by quite a stretch. I also wonder how many solvers, having decoded the title, made any sense of it. In my case, getting most of the extra letters contributing to the name of the person, plus use of Quinapalus, got me the name, and hence understanding of the phrase.

[youngoffender]

What a beast this is, certainly the toughest since 'Elm'. I finally have the answers, the phrase, and the name highlighted, but still have not fathomed any logical sequencing to resolve the ambiguities (e.g. in 35a or 22d). If anyone would drop a hint to rupcousens at yahoo dot co dot uk, I'd be most grateful.

[jim360]

Finally stumbled over the line this evening. A real stinker. Thanks BeRo for the tough workout!

[perseverer]

youngoffender - hint sent

[Simplex]

Hi perseverer. If I can solve a Listener over the weekend, I usually think of it as not too difficult, that's all, and it doesn't mean it wasn't enjoyable.

Maybe I was lucky with this one. An unhealthy over-familiarity with the BRB meant that I didn't take long to crack the second word of the title. There followed a satisfying little PDM in getting what fyellin describes as its full appropriateness and everything tumbled into place.

There were some press articles a few weeks ago suggesting that it takes nine years to master cryptic crosswords. I suspect that many of us in here have been doing the Listener for several times that long, wearing out copies of the BRB and poring over reference library tomes before the age of Google, just to fill our brains with obscure material like this.

(I will venture to change here into a comfortable warm-weather pair of parentheses and say I don't believe that you get to train your brain to recognise themes like this by asking for answers in the Other Place).

[AndrewG-S]

Thank goodness fora long haul flight to Sydney. Finally slotted in the final answers as the landing gear came down. What a stinker! Thanks bero.

[teuchter2]

I started this one late after a short break in London, so was hoping for something a bit easier. I think I've got all the answers that are entered normally and have worked out most of their definitions. I have a possible phrase for the title, but it doesn't seem very promising in terms of showing me what to do next!

[francspenser]

What's 'BRB'?

[BlackHugh]

francspenser - BRB = Big Red Book = Chambers Dictionary

I think I have solved everything & have the theme & the highlighting. There remains the problem that for 2 answers I have 2 possible ways of entering them thematically. I'm sure I must have missed something or got something wrong - anyone else have that?
(hugh dot duncan1 at btinternet dot com if a response here would give too much away)

[BlackHugh]

Issue has been resolved - thanks for the help

[Postigod]

Well that was a battle and a half. Immensely satisfying when the penny finally dropped on the thematic treatment, plus some interesting reading about the phrase, which was new to me.

A real tour de force. Thanks BeRo.

[IainGrace]

Late starters. Solved a few clues and started the grid. Got the basic idea. We'll see.

[Philoctetes]

Now that's more like it. Much more agreeable theme this week, and all fitted neatly together with no loose ends. Kicked myself from one pdm to the next, saving the best till last (the name, of all things), through maze after maze stuffed with wild geese.

[francspenser]

What does 'pdm' mean?

[jim360]

"Penny-drop moment".

[Cloverjo]

Penny Drop Moment