sinners ,rejoice

[claymore]

Why is it more fun to be a sinner than to stay on the straight and narrow?

[RATTER15]

Sorry woofgang, its like a virus to me!!! we all have a cross to bear :-)

but out of interest what other way is there?

[NazNomad]

I think people should believe (or dis-believe) in anything they want. They should not, however, instill those beliefs on others.

[ummmm]

And that goes for Atheists as well....

[NazNomad]

... totally.

[woofgang]

well I started by sitting down quietly on my own, and thinking.......

[sandyRoe]

Sin is essentially some act that harms you or someone else. God weeps to see sinners engaged in whatever they're at. But, even if there was no God, sins would be best avoided.

[RATTER15]

Thats how I started, Im now an atheist, two ex wives and three kids!!!

[RATTER15]

Sandy, so the great flood didnt harm anybody!!! Bless her innocents :-)


OK, OK, Im leaving!!!!!

[Davethedog]

Naz I agree with that however in society in general it seems that even in an increasingly secular society, that still the religious hold sway.

In todays Mail (yes I know) There is a Bishop attacking gay right laws, an article criticising the BBC because they showed a pagan ritual, qouting a bloke from the "christian institute" however no pagan spokesman is quoted.

There has to be a balance and there isn't superstion is allowed to dictate society.

Sin is an offence against god, there are many whose moral compass has no need of a set of rules to keep us on the straight and narrow.

[claymore]

Well like they say... one mans sin is another mans political views.

[ummmm]

'Sin' is just a word. We all know what it means.

[NazNomad]

Pagans were around long before Christians ... they really need to ''get over themselves'' about the whole nailing-the-dude-to -the-cross thing, LOL.

[jake-the-peg]

I really don't know that we do Ummmm

There seem to be at least 2 ideas here

1/ being "without" God
2/ doing something that hurts someone else

Thomas Aquinas said it was a word, deed, or desire, contrary to God's eternal law

That rather presupposes that everyone is in agrement on that eternal law

Does anybody know if and how the concept exists in the non-Abrahamic religions?

Hinduism? Budhism? etc

[naomi24]

Woofgang, several years ago we had a big discussion in R&S about who God is, and concluded that it's generally assumed he is the God of the Bible and the Koran. It follows therefore that since the only information we have about that God is contained within those books, we have no alternative but to limit our knowledge of him to that. For example, was he omnipotent? No, he wasn't. Was he vengeful, jealous, and hateful? Yes he was - there's no doubt about that - so however loving and forgiving and compassionate you imagine him, quite simply he was none of those things, and the denial of the faithful doesn't change that. The 'facts' are there in black and white for all to see. However, that said, if your contemplations and perhaps your spiritual experiences lead you to believe that the God you choose to believe in is indeed a loving entity then perhaps you should broaden your mind and look at a much bigger picture because it seems to me that you, like many others, are confusing two very different beings and two very different philosophies.

Jake, Buddhists don't kill other living creatures because they adhere to the philosophy of reincarnation, the ultimate goal being Nirvana - perfection and a personal spiritual oneness with the universe. Bad deeds do not offend any higher power, but result in the perpetrator being reborn in a lesser role, or even as a lower form of life - so if you see a worm working hard at turning the earth, you might hazard a guess what's its been up to - and what its eventual aim is. ;o)

[RATTER15]

Naomi, so you are implying that the humble worm is not a happy soul? :-)

[mibn2cweus]

RATTER15, Don't you mean, 'happy sod'? ;o)
On what are we to base such a determination?

[mibn2cweus]

There's no correlation to 'sin' in reality. It's purely a made up term asserting made up rules allegedly dictated by a make believe entity espoused by those seeking to extort control through appealing to their victims virtues by taking advantage of undefined and unjustified feelings of guilt and fear derived solely from ignorance.

Their success is evidenced by a world predominated by unthinking zombies and spiritually devoid automatons whose minds have been intellectually severed from their bodies rendering them unable to relate to and incapable of discerning or fathoming the meaning of right and wrong, leaving in their wake the spectacle of helplessness and hopelessness that is the inevitable consequence of unfounded arbitrary emotionally misguided beliefs.

//I think people should believe (or dis-believe) in anything they want. They should not, however, instill those beliefs on others.// Guess again, NazNomad. It is such beliefs, derived from your lack of knowledge or the refusal to acknowledge what you do know that invites an arbitrary baseless determination of when the rights of others as well as your own have been violated, laying a foundation for all the religions of the world along with their asserted right to condemn you as a ‘sinner’ worthy of the worst of punishments they or you can imagine.

If you wonder how it is that you live in an arbitrary world, where knowledge and technology are used not in defense of but as a weapon against humanity, it is baseless arbitrary beliefs, you own no less than those of others, that need to be brought into question.

[naomi24]

Now there's a deep question Ratter. How would we determine whether or not a worm is a happy soul - or as mibs puts it, a happy sod? And what does a worthy, dutiful, worm aspire to become in his next incarnation? And if he's really good can he leap a life or ten on his was back to possessing a human body and become, say, a mouse or a hedgehog? (Actually I think the Buddhists believe that last one is possible).

[RATTER15]

Naomi, If I believed in a God I think I could almost be a Buddhist, their philosophy on life often is in keeping with mine. I did say almost!!

I'm not sure they would accept me after hunting rabbits and fox with a rifle for many years and then to become a pest controller.

Saying that, I was once called out to a Buddhist school/retreat to treat a mouse infestation!! I had to promise to keep it a secret, I had to attend late at night when there were few people around to see me poisoning these innocent creatures. lol

[naomi24]

Me too Ratter - almost!

Your nocturnal visit to the retreat made me laugh. I suppose it proves that even those with the most commendable of spiritual principles have no alternative but to join the rest of us in the real world at times.

By the way, Buddhists don't believe in a personal God like those of the Abrahamic faiths. They have a much bigger view of the universe.