How Rough Was It Being In The Pre, During And Post Ww1 And Ww2 Era?

[Jahulaye]

I’m intrigued by your experiences

[Togo]

//There's no doubt that, as a whole, the British people came together and accepted a great deal of hardship, more than I can ever truly appreciate, in the war years and even afterwards. But other British people were opportunistic scumbags, because obviously they were.//

Correct Jim, but what one cares to highlight and even celebrate does tell us a lot as well.

[jim360]

Does it not depend on the timing? If someone paints an overly rosy picture (and therefore, gets their facts wrong) then correcting it is natural, and arguably quite important, rather than cynical.

[Togo]

Jim we all knew about the black market, and the spivs, and the gangsters and thieves. Unfortunately a war doesn't make them go away(other words are available) As you say it is all about the "timing". The unpalatable facts which are gleefully seized upon and celebrated, even on this site, are now to become a beacon for the spiteful and eager critics of the majority of the British people, with it's best long term interests at heart, for their own selfish ends. I am prepared to bet that every person who takes such obvious delight in obsessively using 70 odd year old data as firmly EU centric. Mind you there were a lot of immigrants in London as well. Pity there is no breakdown of the origins of the miscreants.
Of course non of these things took place across Europe or Asia did they?

[jno]

Mind you there were a lot of immigrants in London as well

No there weren't. 2.65%, mostly Irish.

Nice try.

[jim360]

I'm worried that I'm about to be called a Nazi Sympathiser, but still: yes, of course a lot of crap went on in Europe and Asia also. The Japanese in WWII in particular have a great deal to answer for.

But if we are doing that, and reminding ourselves how awful the bad guys were in WWII, shouldn't we also note that the same "community spirit" lauded here was found there also? The Blitz the British people suffered in 1940 was horrific and gutted cities, and killed thousands. Its ultimate aim, though, was to break the will of the British, and at this it failed spectacularly. But for some reason Allied Commanders didn't notice this and thought that trying the same thing on Germany *would* break their spirit. So we ended up gutting many German cities in return -- most notably Dresden, but many others alongside -- on scales that completely dwarfed the British Blitz. Did it break the German people's spirit either? No. They, too, came together and resisted some utter devastation.

I am absolutely not meaning to understate the horrors of the British Blitz, or to devalue the spirit of those who endured it. But it's historically inaccurate to somehow portray such a reaction as uniquely British, let alone to go on and pretend that it was universal.

It shouldn't be deemed "unpatriotic" to be truthful. And it shouldn't be necessary to portray all British people in WWII as perfect in order to claim a moral high ground over Fascism.

[woofgang]

I am neither Eu centric nor gleefully celebrating anything. I do think its important to recall the facts of the past....ALL of the facts.

[Togo]

//No there weren't. 2.65%, mostly Irish.

Nice try. //

Not only glib but wrong again .Even before the war, thousands of refugees had come to Britain from Austria, Czechoslovakia and Germany mainly settling in London, much as they do now. They came because they were in danger from the Nazis. When the Germans overran Europe in 1940, many more refugees escaped to Britain. To say nothing of the thousands of overseas servicemen who were stationed here. To blame it on the Irish is heinous indeed.

[Togo]

Did no such thing Jim. But will not sit by and let someone condemn my ancestors as thieving chancers after they endured so much. Endured I would add to allow these gainsayers the very freedom of speech that they use to slander them.

[woofgang]

ermmmmm wrong thread clarion st?

[woofgang]

nobody is condemning anybody's ancestors for things they didn't do.

[Togo]

Ditto Clarion. Born the same year. The smog in Stoke was actually an olive green what with the steel works, kilns and coal fires. Lucky me. Down the mine at 16 and worked my guts off all my life to now be called a selfish old racist git by people who have moved to the UK to take advantage of the wealth that me and my generation strove to create. The thread took the direction that it did steered by those very same people, who would denigrate the indigenous British to hide their own shortcomings. The only mistake we made was to shrug our shoulders and ignore the zealots and backsliders instead of stopping them early. We were too focused on making good our lives and hauling Britain out of the mire.

[jno]

excuse me, Togo? Care to point out where I've blamed anything whatever on the Irish? You may be looking for someone to blame (refugees from Nazi Germany?); I'm not.

The figures are here

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/a-tale-of-two-cities-from-1939-to-2015-how-london-transformed-9957763.html

Feel free to provide an alternative source that backs up your claims.

[Togo]

I believe you Jnose. There were no refugees in Britain before or during WW2, no foreign soldiers either it was all those cockney sparrers that were to blame.........Ohh and a couple of Irishmen.

[Togo]

I read your scientific link from the Evening Standard. HaHa reliable not. // 2.65 per cent of residents // was what you siezed on but fail to realize that refugees were not granted resident status, unlike now.

The comments following were pretty usefull mind. :))